Ever since Wintec came out with the Wintec Wide, dressage enthusiasts have been wondering when they’ll get around to making a Wintec Wide Dressage model. The answer appears to be… someday. Maybe. If you’re lucky.
For those that don’t know, Wintec saddles come with adjustable gullet plates: you can open up the front of the saddle, expose the tree, unscrew a couple of screws and pop out the metal plate that holds the gullet area below the pommel rigid, then pop in a different gullet plate that’s narrower or wider, screw it in, close up the front of the saddle and, in theory, fit it to a different horse. It’s a pretty good system, albeit one that does not address the fit of the back half of the tree. Still… it’s good. I love my Wintec Pro Dressage to death. I’ve used it with the extra-wide gullet plate on Tucker for years (there are six gullet plates– narrow, medium narrow, medium, medium-wide, wide, and extra-wide). But here’s the catch. Tucker… isn’t a particularly wide horse. In fact, he’s what I’d call an average horse, saddle-fit-wise. And looking at the narrow Wintec gullet– yeah. I don’t think horses exist that are shaped like that.
Apparently, I’m not the only Wintec owner to notice this problem. So Wintec designed the Wintec Wide All Purpose saddle to fit horses that are ACTUALLY wide.
It has a different tree, different panels, and a different girthing system. Oh, and it comes with three “ultra-wide” gullet plates, all clearly marked “ONLY FOR USE IN WINTEC WIDE & WINTEC HAFLINGER”.
The Wintec website gives dire warnings about how if you use one of the purple ultra-wide gullet plates in a normal Wintec saddle, you’ll invalidate the warranty and you may break the tree, killing yourself, the horse, and several innocent puppies and kittens nearby. (Okay, I added that last part myself.)
There’s only one problem. Well, two, actually. The first is that I need to fit a saddle to this coming four-year-old, who has a back so wide and flat you could set out a seven-course meal on it without spilling a drop of the soup. And I like dressage saddles, not all purpose saddles.
The second is that I have a deeply ingrained problem with authority figures, and when someone tells me I mustn’t do something, it makes me want to run out and do it. Fortunately, I also happen to have an old Wintec 500 AP saddle that I hate with a burning passion. Here it is with the medium gullet installed.
Gosh, I wonder if anyone sells purple ultra-wide gullets on the internet. Oh, look! They do! And I bought one! Here it is next to the extra-wide gullet I’ve been using in my dressage saddle.
That’s a fairly significant difference. I wonder what would happen if I installed it in the Wintec 500 that I don’t really give a fig about. Maybe the tree will break?
Nope! Apparently not. It’s not even all that hard to fit into place. Biggest challenge is getting the points of the tree back in the point pockets, and even that’s not too big of a deal.
Ta-da! Compare this photo to the earlier one of the same saddle with the medium gullet plate installed:
That’s a pretty noticeable change!
So, after running it out to the barn for a test ride (yes, I still hate this saddle!), nothing catastrophic happened. No broken tree, no obvious points of strain or wrinkling on the stress points of the saddle… I decided to go for it and install this gullet plate in my Wintec Pro Dressage to make it into a Wintec Wide Dressage.
Well… that’s pretty wide, alright. Time to run up to the barn for saddle fitting! Here’s Tucker (pardon the mud spatters):
That looks pretty good. Shoulder clearance: yes. Bridging: no. Good panel contact in back: yes. Saddle balance:
Oops. Not so much. The saddle now sits downhill. This is not too surprising, since Tucker also sits downhill, as you can see. I corrected the downhill tilt with shims, and had a lovely ride. I made a point of going fast (yee-haw!), doing some quick changes of direction and generally riding around like a banshee. The saddle tree still did not break. No innocent kittens or puppies were killed.
So– how about that filly with the back like a table top?
Shoulder clearance: borderline. Bridging: no. Good panel contact in back:
Well… it’s not horrible. Mind you, it’s not great, either. Saddle balance:
Eep. Guess not. The saddle still perches up on top of those double-wide shoulders, and will not really work for this filly. I’m thinking I may have to bite the bullet and spring for an Ansur treeless for this baby girl. Because I’m not going to take a chance on destroying this…
… with back pain. And yes, it really is the same horse. And no, I don’t know why she’s fugly when she stands still and gorgeous when she moves.
However, my new Wintec Wide Dressage saddle now fits the unfittable, unbroke ex-broodmare– who really needs to become a broke ex-broodmare– like a glove:
… and looks pretty darn good on my mother’s Friesian cross, as well.
Conclusions? There appears to be no reason not to use Wintec Wide gullet plates in older Wintec saddles. Of course, the tree could break tomorrow, or next month, or next year. But the wider gullet plate was not difficult to install, it does not appear to be stressing other components of the saddle by stretching or compressing them, and it performed perfectly through a ride at high speeds and with sharp turns and quick stops.
I am considering the pros and cons of selling used Wintec dressage saddles with Wintec Wide gullet plates installed. If I decide to do so, they will be sold on the Wintec Wide Dressage Saddle page of the site.
I was thinking about installing the purple gullets into my bates caprilli a/p..but I am scared because it is such an exspensive saddle, I have a thorough/shire that needs a wider saddle, do you think this is safe to do?
I probably wouldn’t, personally. I say that mainly because it seems like a leather saddle would be less forgiving of extra strain than a synthetic. Have you considered dropping a couple hundred on a used Wintec to test it out? That way you could at least see if the purple gullets would fit your horse; if they don’t, putting it in your Bates saddle would be a moot point, anyway.
When will you post again ? Been looking forward to this !
Ah– sorry! I’ve been fighting the appalling weather and sundry stuff to do with my other job. I do indeed have an update on a saddle for the doublewide four-year-old; just need to get pictures and find time to write a post. Thanks for your interest!
i want to get one
Okay. Why don’t you use the contact form to let me know what size seat you need, and I’ll get you a quote and try to set you up.
I appreciate your time and effort – thanks for the post
Just had to tell you that you are hilarious and informative. Thanks!
Thank you! Deer Run Stables: striving for a balance of hilarity and informative-ness since 1995.
Hi, your article is great cos I’ve just bought a 2nd hand Wintec Dressage to try exactly this on!! My cob is way too wide for the white gullet plate!! What I’m wondering tho is have you tried all the widths of the extra wide gullets in the standard saddles? They do 3 I believe…I’m thinking I may need the dark purple (xxxxwide) or the mid purple (xxxwide) to fit her and wondered if that may be pushing it too much?! Thanks for any advice you can give me!!
Hi, Becky– I used the mid-purple xxx-wide in my Wintec Pro dressage. I chose that one because I knew that the white x-wide wasn’t even close to what I needed, but I was concerned about trying to use the very widest one (dark purple). I think you might run into problems getting the points back into the point pockets with the widest gullet; it was a bit difficult with the middle xxx-wide gullet. Let me know what happens if you decide to try it– I’d be very curious. Good luck!
Hi, I have also read of people using a vice and stretching out the white gullet. I have a hafflinger and the waist of the regular isabel is too narrow, do you think that the wintec dressage wide waist is wider?
Jody, I don’t think putting the purple ultra-side gullets in the Wintec Isabell or Wintec Pro Dressage saddles will affect the width of the waist much, unfortunately. That said, the Wintec Wide (which is not a dressage saddle) has a completely redesigned tree including wider panels and, I believe, a wider waist.
Hello again, thank you for your reply, I thought that wintec had put out a wide dressage, I have been eyeing the AP wide but would prefer a dressage.
I wish Wintec *would* get on the ball and make a Wide Dressage model– it certainly would have saved me a lot of hassle! I ended up going with a cheap Ascot Commander dressage saddle with a 10-inch (!) gullet for my mare. If you can get past the low-quality materials, it’s a good fit for her and a tolerable fit for me.
Hi again. Well I tried it! My standard Wintec dressage now has the widest dark purple gullet in and seems fine! I am monitoring whether it is wide enough in the waist but she seems to be moving well in it and it certainly fits better than her previous saddle plus its great to be riding her in a dressage saddle as her thing is dressage! It took a bit of effort to get the points into the point pockets but nothing too alarming and I have tested it in walk, trot and canter and nothing disasterous has happened!
Hi, Becky! I’m glad it’s working for you. Keep checking the tree every once in awhile, especially where the gullet plate screws into the saddle tree. I gather that’s where the problem will be, if there’s going to be a problem. I got a different saddle for my wide mare, and put the white gullet back in for Tucker, so I still don’t have any long-term data on the purple gullets. Best of luck, and let me know if you have any problems so I can update this article and warn people.